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Post by Blaque on Jul 25, 2006 8:19:00 GMT -5
When you pray for something, do you pray only once or do you continue to pray for it. If you believe that God hears your prayers, shouldn't it be enough that you pray once and let God answer in his own time? If we continue to pray for the same thing over and over, isn't that like not trusting in the power of prayer? Sometimes God answers by saying "No", other times he answers by saying "Wait, you're not ready yet". So are repeated prayers a sign of a lack of faith or a lack of trust in the fact that The Lord knows what is best for us?
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Jul 25, 2006 12:35:34 GMT -5
There is a parable about a widow and an unjust judge, she went back to the judge over and over and he would NOT help her, Finally he gave in because of her persistance, we must NEVER give up in prayer, some idiot started teaching this "only ask once" crap and it is wrong, The Bible says PRAY WITHOUT CEASING" just keep knocking.
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Jul 25, 2006 12:37:48 GMT -5
Persistent Prayer Luke 11:5-8 (Jer) He also said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend and goes to him in the middle of the night to say, 'My friend, lend me three loaves, because a friend of mine on his travels has just arrived at my house and I have nothing to offer him'; and the man answers from inside the house, 'Do not bother me. The door is bolted now, and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up to give it to you.' I tell you, if the man does not get up and give it to him for friendship's sake, persistence will be enough to make him get up and give his friend all he wants."
How do we square the idea that we should not use "many words" in prayer with the admonitions and examples of persistent prayer?
The key is to understand that there is no magic in repetition or in the form of words. Rather, the issue is relational: in being faithful and determined in going to HIM. God knows in advance what we need or desire, so He does not need to be lectured and does not respond well to loquacity. Rather, let us go to Him consistently and persistently with simple humility to make our requests known... until they are answered. Luke 18:1-8 (Wey) He also taught them by a parable that they must always pray and never lose heart. "In a certain town," He said, "there was a judge who had no fear of God and no respect for man. And in the same town was a widow who repeatedly came and entreated him, saying, 'Give me justice and stop my oppressor.' For a time he would not, but afterwards he said to himself, 'Though I have neither reverence for God nor respect for man, yet because she annoys me I will give her justice, to prevent her from constantly coming to pester me.'" And the Lord said, "Hear those words of the unjust judge. And will not God avenge the wrongs of His own People who cry aloud to Him day and night, although He seems slow in taking action on their behalf? Yes, He will soon avenge their wrongs. Yet, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on earth?"
Phil 4:6 (Wey) Do not be over-anxious about anything, but by prayer and earnest pleading, together with thanksgiving, let your request be unreservedly made known in the presence of God.
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Jul 25, 2006 13:54:40 GMT -5
A practice that many have found useful is to offer prayers based on the word of God. The idea is to personalize a text to yourself (if in private) or a group (if in public).
Praying Scripture in Private
Scriptures should be chosen along the path of need and growth. For example, Heb 13:5 becomes:
[Heb 13:5] "Lord, make sure that my [instead of your; you get the idea...] character is free from the love of money, making me content with what I have."
This sort of "scripture praying" personalization can be done ad-hoc during routine Bible Study or silently in the heart based on memorized / paraphrased texts anytime of the day.
Here are three examples of paraphrased, personalized prayer based on the Phillips, NIV and NAS translations. In actual practice it might be good to stop along the way to thank God extemporaneously or to confess a particular failure, but for the sake of example we will stick fairly close to the text.
[Eph 4:17] "Lord, I pray that out of the glorious richness of your resources you will enable me to know the strength of the Spirit's inner re-enforcement--that Christ may actually live in my heart by faith." [2 Peter 1:3-11] "Lord, you have by your own action given me everything that is necessary for living righteously here and now, by allowing me to know and have Jesus--who has called me through his own glorious goodness. It is through Christ Jesus that these great and precious promises have become available to me, making it possible to escape the inevitable corruption that lust produces in the world and for me to share in your essential and permanent nature. For this very reason, Lord, I must do the utmost from my side, and see that my faith results in real moral excellence--real goodness of life. My goodness must be accompanied by knowledge, my knowledge then by self-control, my self-control by the ability to endure. My endurance too must always be fueled by complete devotion to you; which in turn will result in my showing the quality of brotherly kindness, and my brotherly kindness must lead on to supernatural Christian love. Lord, if I have these qualities manifesting and growing within me then it means that I really do know Jesus as Lord, and I can be sure that the power of Christ in me will keep my life from becoming either complacent or unproductive. If I fail to exhibit these qualities it means I am blind or short-sighted--that I can't remember how great your salvation was from my former sins. I want to set my mind, then, on endorsing by my conduct the fact that you, God, have really called and chosen me. If I grow in these qualities there is no reason why I should ever stumble. As long as I am living a more and more Christ-like life then I can be completely sure that the Father will grant me a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ."
[Phm 1:6] "Lord, give me grace and opportunity to be active in sharing my faith, so that I will have a full understanding of every good thing that I have inherited in Christ."
Praying Scripture With Others
For group or public prayers, "us" or "we" replaces "me" or "you". Best in this venue are Scriptures that are prayer-like to begin with. Here are three examples.
[Eph 3:16-19] "Father, we pray that out of your glorious riches you may strengthen us with power through your Spirit in our inner beings, so that Christ may dwell in our hearts through faith. And we pray that, being rooted and established in love, that we may have power--together with all the saints--to grasp how wide and long and high and deep the love of Messiah is. Lord, we want to know of your love that surpasses knowledge, so that we may be filled to the measure of the fullness God." [2 Thes 1:11-12] "O Lord, we pray that you may count us worthy of your calling, and that by your power you may fulfill every good purpose we have and every act prompted by our faith. We pray this so that the name of the Lord Jesus may be glorified in us, so that we might be glorified together with him, according to the grace of God and the Lord Jesus Christ."
[Col 3:15-16] "Lord Jesus, may your peace rule in our hearts, since as members of your body we were called to peace. Give us a thankful instinct and disposition, Lord! And may your word dwell in us richly as we teach and admonish each other with all wisdom, and as we sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in our hearts to you."
Now, open your bible and give it a try. Great places to start are Ephesians, Colossians, and 1 Peter.
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Post by lusciouslois on Jul 25, 2006 14:16:16 GMT -5
Answer me this, Panther...... How can a person effectively pray about a situation that has upset them or made them mad? By that I mean, would a prayer for that certain thing be answered if you are mad while you are praying? I dont mean a prayer for harm for that person, before assumptions are made. It is sorta like when the pastor tells us, "touch your neighbor and say......".....I might not recieving what he is preaching about, so I don't want to "touch my neighbor and say."
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Jul 27, 2006 11:05:56 GMT -5
Sis we all have had anger issues and problems forgiving, but the hard part is admitting it, and then FORGETTING! I have learned (it takes practice) to forgive very quickly! Life is TOO SHORT to walk around mad all the time, Jesus said "Father forgive them" about the people that put Him on the cross, now if Jesus could forgive THAT, why do we hold on to trivial stuff so long?
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Post by lusciouslois on Jul 27, 2006 11:18:36 GMT -5
Sis we all have had anger issues and problems forgiving, but the hard part is admitting it, and then FORGETTING! I have learned (it takes practice) to forgive very quickly! Life is TOO SHORT to walk around mad all the time, Jesus said "Father forgive them" about the people that put Him on the cross, now if Jesus could forgive THAT, why do we hold on to trivial stuff so long? I can easily admit that I am angry...the forgiveness is totally different, but thank you for answering.
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Post by Blaque on Jul 27, 2006 11:58:20 GMT -5
Panther, I want to ask you a related question because I really value your opinion on these things. (but anyone else can chime in too). Isn't it possible to forgive someone, let go of the anger but still not allow them in your life anymore? I feel the need to say that this is NOT about any specific situation, this is something I have struggled with all of my life. I can let go of the anger and forgive a person in my heart, but that doesn't mean that I want to re-establish a relationship. I refuse to be a doormat. So do you think that is truly forgiving a person?
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Post by lusciouslois on Jul 27, 2006 12:25:01 GMT -5
Panther, I want to ask you a related question because I really value your opinion on these things. (but anyone else can chime in too). Isn't it possible to forgive someone, let go of the anger but still not allow them in your life anymore? I feel the need to say that this is NOT about any specific situation, this is something I have struggled with all of my life. I can let go of the anger and forgive a person in my heart, but that doesn't mean that I want to re-establish a relationship. I refuse to be a doormat. So do you think that is truly forgiving a person? Not wanting to be a doormat doesnt mean you have to re-estabish a relationship and doesnt constitute "unforgiveness," IMHO. It seems like our minister said something about even if you forgive, you dont have to let that person "back in." That would be a matter of choice, IMHO again. If I figure out what the sermon was, I'll get back. I myself had a bad breakup with the ex husband as well as the ex SO. I have never re-established a friendship or anything civil with the ex husband and doubt that I can or want to establish one with the ex SO.
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Jul 27, 2006 12:38:09 GMT -5
I really believe you can forgive AND forget, but still not have a relationship with that person, I have people in my life I KNOW mean me NO GOOD, I love them even pray for them, but I am not eating dinner with them. My main point on this issue is DON'T let bitterness fester inside of you. Even on these boards we get mad at each other (say amen somebody) over excuse my language (Bullshiznit) Life is short, maybe being sick has made me not stress over nonsense, I love people and I believe everyone has value, lets focus on the good qualities in each other....I feel a group hug here! Love you guys!
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Post by Blaque on Jul 27, 2006 12:45:59 GMT -5
Thank you both. Oh, and Amen Black Panther.
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Post by skye on Aug 2, 2006 13:09:55 GMT -5
Sis we all have had anger issues and problems forgiving, but the hard part is admitting it, and then FORGETTING! I have learned (it takes practice) to forgive very quickly! Life is TOO SHORT to walk around mad all the time, Jesus said "Father forgive them" about the people that put Him on the cross, now if Jesus could forgive THAT, why do we hold on to trivial stuff so long? Well said. Life is too short to live it being angry.
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