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Post by Blaque on Oct 23, 2006 11:53:09 GMT -5
Do you believe that once you're saved that you're always saved? Why or why not? If you do believe that, do you think that all saved people go to heaven?
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Oct 24, 2006 21:27:50 GMT -5
One of the most basic controversies in the church concerns whether a Christian can lose his salvation. Some claim the Bible teaches that salvation can be lost, either from sinning or because a person stops believing. There are several reasons for this. They are misinterpreting Scripture (I’ll take a look at some of the passages in a moment). Many people think Christians can lose their salvation because they have known someone who professed faith in Christ, participated in church activities, perhaps even seemed to be used of God--then dropped it all and walked away. To them, that person lost their salvation. But this is an argument from experience, and experience is not a dependable teacher (we’ll examine this argument as well). And some use the logical argument that if salvation is secure then we can live anyway we want (you guessed it, I’ll take a look at that. too). Let’s begin by examining some of the biblical evidence that salvation is a decree of God that cannot be lost--that Christians are eternally secure. Several strong statements by Christ Himself should completely settle the issue. In John 6:37 Jesus says, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” And in John 6:39, “This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of ALL He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” If you look at the context, you’ll see he is talking about us. Then, look at what He says in chapter 10, starting at v. 27: “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand.” These verses are irrefutable evidence that salvation cannot be lost. Think about the phrase, “eternal life” or “everlasting life.” For instance, in John 5:24, “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” It says the one who trusts in Christ has everlasting life. Not “will have” or “may have if he endures.” He has salvation in the present tense. And how long is everlasting life? Forever, not temporary, according to Heb. 10:14 “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.” Also, notice that John 5:24 says “has passed from death into life.” The perfect tense for the verb indicates that John sees this as a completed action. It is, in other words, an accomplished fact. Paul says in Col. 1:13: “He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love.” This transfer from one state to the other is a major theme in the New Testament. Those who believe salvation can be lost seem to think of salvation only in the sense of the privilege of going to heaven instead of hell. It is a simple thing to them to think of losing that privilege. Those who hold this position forget what a complete and radical transformation we undergo at the time of conversion. John 5:24 is just a preliminary indicator of this remarkable and supernatural change of state. Much of the New Testament is concerned with this transformation and its impact on our lives. Consider just five things that are involved in this transformation.
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Oct 24, 2006 21:29:21 GMT -5
Rom. 6:6, our old man has been crucified with Christ, “that the body of sin may be nullified.” Much debate has come about because of the verb ‘nullify’. None of that is of much help in this discussion. What is important is the fact of it. If the body of sin has been nullified, how can it be reactivated? Our co-crucifixion with Christ has nullified the power the sin nature has over us, and consequently our need to obey it. For salvation to be lost, this power would have to be given back to the sin nature once again. The thought of this is incredible. This complete and radical transformation that we have seen demonstrated in Scripture disproves the oft-repeated teaching that salvation is not lost by sinning but by ceasing to trust in Christ. The logic is that since we are saved by believing we also can become unsaved again by not believing. If salvation were JUST a matter of believing this might be possible. But even beyond what has already been said there are many more ways in which our position is changed permanently upon salvation. Here are some facts concerning the Christian's position which are difficult to see as anything but very permanent: a predestined incorruptible inheritance kept by the power of God (Eph. 1:11; 1 Pet. 1:3-5), sealed for the day of redemption by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30), predestined conformed to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29), predestined to adoption as a son (Eph. 1:5). How can all these things be true if our final salvation is conditioned on our freedom from sin or continued faith? We are not going to be completely conformed to the image of Christ in this life. Yet Paul says in Rom. 8:29 that we are predestined for that purpose. The word ‘predestine’ in Scripture means literally “to mark out, set, or appoint beforehand.” For the Christian, conformity to the image of Christ, adoption as sons, and an eternal inheritance all are appointed by God before anything existed. Can God’s predestination be undone? Can His determination of these blessings for the Christian be negated? Rom. 8:29 all by itself should prove that we cannot lose salvation. One of the concepts mentioned above, the sealing of the Spirit, is particularly crucial to our discussion. Eph. 1:13-14 says (my translation): “In Him also you--after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in Whom also you believed--you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the ransom of God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.” Notice that the sealing is done by the Holy Spirit, and by this sealing He guarantees our inheritance until the day we are finally ransomed (redeemed) out of this world. The Christian already has redemption (Eph. 1:7)—a ransom price—but final redemption will come at the great day of our meeting with Him (Eph. 4:30). If salvation can be lost, then the Holy Spirit’s guarantee is no good. Can anyone honestly say that?
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Oct 24, 2006 21:30:09 GMT -5
In short....NO a Christian CANNOT lose thier salvation!
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jazzlover
B.E. Sergeant First Class
It Takes Pressure to Make a Diamond
Posts: 3,912
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Post by jazzlover on Oct 24, 2006 21:33:00 GMT -5
So what about the teaching that sin will cause us to lose salvation? This is taught in various ways: either certain sins, or a certain amount of sin, or a certain amount of time in sin. In other words, no one seems to be able to agree on the definition of what about sin causes the loss of salvation. But we need to realize that God knew all about our future sin when He saved us. Romans 5:10 says, “For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” There is no ‘except’ clause here--no “unless you sin too much or lose your faith.” Why would He reject a person for sin when they had been saved as a sinner in the first place? In fact, 1 John 2:2 says that Christ paid the complete debt for our sin before we were saved: “And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.” All the demands of the righteousness of God have been met by Christ’s sacrifice in our place. Therefore God can forgive our sins, not by being lenient, but by accepting Christ’s atonement. If we had to keep from sinning after salvation in order to keep our salvation, then Christ’s death on the cross would be incomplete. Furthermore, God has made provision for sinning after salvation. He says, in 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” When we sin, we only need to agree with God regarding that sin and He will cleanse us. Of course agreement with God means we look at sin with the same revulsion as God. Implied is the renouncement and repentance that should follow. We must be honest with God and see things His way in order to have true confession—but the confession will bring cleansing.
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drok9
B.E. Sergeant
Too Blessed To Be Stressed
Posts: 1,084
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Post by drok9 on Oct 28, 2006 8:11:07 GMT -5
No you cannot lose your salvation but one can lose his royalties.
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